Talk:Lee Sin/@comment-7007348-20140131103454/@comment-9705522-20140210190238
oh boy, misconceptions, yay. well, you are wrong. of course, you know that pantheon is going to use it, but you dont when or where. i mean, if pantheons e was that easy to stop, katarina would be absolutely worthless. considering how from what i see by playing her she isnt, there must be a flaw in your argument. well, obviously there is. yes, he has flight time from his gapcloser, but thats hardly long. thing is, here is the time that every cc has. 0.25, cast time, at least. 0.05, ping delay. 0,2, reaction time. thats already 0.5. if we count the time needed to press the mouse completely, travel time of cc and so on, very few cc abilities remain. to be more exact, fiddles fear and annies w. all other cc is too slow or needs you to be closer than you probably will. fiddle, after the latest nerfs, isnt very viable. now you might notice that annie, arguably one of the top 3 supports actually is capable of stopping it. well, yes. problem is, if she does that she wont be able to 4 man stun the enemy team. and it takes bloody forever to get the damn stun back. as for the ones you pointed out, janna tornado, cast time 0.25, delay before castable again 0.5. lulu ult, 0.25 cast time and its weird delay. although, some people say its been fixed, so she might be able too, but how often do you see a lulu? well, i havent seen her in ages, so yeah. thresh flay, needs you to be very close and is still way too slow. and well, i guess you havent been in this game for very long. because apparantly you missed the time where the builds switched. your logic is backwards. you dont build damage straight up and tankiness when needed, its the opposite. you build damage when needed, when you get to excessive damage that doesnt help you, you trade that damage for tankiness. back about 3 years ago, pantheon was played full ad. bloodthirster, bloodthirster, youmuus, last whisper, boots and defensive item of your choice. but people realized this build wasnt the most effective. you dont need that much ad to blow up the adc, and if you trade it for tankiness, you can actually blow up the adc, be a nuisance to the enemy team by being harder to kill while chucking spears and repeating your combo, and that proved to be more effective. darius isnt played full ad for the same reason. sure you can blow someone up from 100 to 0, but you can also do that without that much ad, and with tankiness you can be an annoying tank and do it more often. and ad carries not building tankiness? ... have you even played this game? like, the last time i saw an adc without at least one tanky item was in season 2 where i was in low silver. banshees or ga are core, some actually take the other one too. also, you forgot the key thing. yes, its possible to reduce pantheons burst below khas. very, very unlikely, as otherwise katarina would be useless, but possible. thing is, if pantheon fails to kill the enemy, he still lives and can deal a lot of damage, simply because he is tanky. if kha fails to kill someone quickly enough and is ccd in time, he is dead. no way out, no tankiness because he needs all the damage, his ult only works for burst combo and when not ccd. in the end, thats why kha is situational in the lcs, mostly picked or banned when alex ich is in the game, and other than that rarely picked or banend, and if picked usually underperforms, whereas pantheon is a well established powerful champion that is picked and banned a lot, and has a 60% win rate. edit: further examples of champions where building full damage was the norm at first, and then people played tankier just because it was more effective after all: lee sin, elise, katarina post rework until rebalance changes, garen when he was still useful, darius, jax and rumble. quite a lot, no?